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In Middletown, N.J., we do bar mitzvahs, Christmas parties and 9/11 memorials as a community. Am I now the enemy?
Osman Adnan and his brother serve their country with pride. They are Muslims. When people start throwing a fuss over a Muslim center, it stings people like Osman. It also stings his brother, who received a Purple Heart for his service in Iraq. We should consider these people before we pass judgment on an entire religious group. A couple of solid paragraphs from the article:
I believe Rauf’s goal with Park51 is in harmony with the goals of our nation’s founders. George Washington himself once wrote to a Jewish congregation in Rhode Island, reassuring them of our nation’s religious tolerance. “For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.” I flew halfway around the world to promote that great vision, and my brother came close to giving his life to protect it.
George Washington also reminded us to guard against the “imposters of pretended patriotism.” Mr. Gingrich and Mrs. Palin: Please do not confuse the public and slander all Muslim-Americans as being responsible for 9/11. Please don’t tell my shrapnel-scarred war hero brother that he is no different than the 9/11 hijackers. Sadly, you represent the very spirit of intolerance you attack in others.
Enjoy knowing 70% of Americans are against the mosque, yet claim to love freedom.
Adam Feser
Update:
Salon has a good list of loads of people that have taken some position on the issue. It’s worth a look if you’re at all interested in this and want to see how various politicians decided to respond. (Hint – there are a lot of cowards.)
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The same freedom of speech that objects to the Baptists that picket the soldier’s funerals, objects to the KKK that march in parades, objects to the Nazi’s that deny the holocaust also objects to the mosque. If I had the power, I would never deny them the freedom, but I will not forfiet my rights to object loudly and forcefully to sway public opion such that they change their mind.
I would expect more from a college graduate, Adam.
What are you talking about? Of course people have the right to protest, I’m just calling them idiots. I would expect you to do the same to the KKK or whatever else. I don’t even get where you’re coming from. Do you just have to make stuff up so we can disagree? We seem to actually agree on this, and then you accuse me of wanting to get rid of freedom of speech? I don’t get it.
You said “Enjoy knowing 70% of Americans are against the mosque, yet claim to love freedom” This indicates that you see the two positions as exclusive of one another. In future refutations, I will try smaller sentences and simpler constructions. Political Science, hmmm?
Are they not? If you said the KKK can’t march, that would be taking a position against constitutional rights, and yes, freedom. We allow that sort of speech, yet we’re trying to stop a Muslim community center from being built. You’re point still doesn’t make sense.
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You seemed to be implying that I wanted to strip protesters of their freedom, and now you seem to be saying the protesters don’t want to take anyone else’s freedom. Those seem like two different arguments to me, but I’m just a lowly political scientist graduate. Either way you’re wrong. These people (just like white supremacists) can raise a ruckus all they want, but they’re horribly wrong. And by trying to stop others from exercising their constitutional right, they’re demonstrating that they aren’t interested in freedom that doesn’t concern themselves.
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Maybe smaller sentences and simpler constructions would help you make a single clear argument. I’m curious, which argument were you making, because it certainly seems like you simply made up a new one and acted like I just didn’t get it.
You said “If you said the KKK can’t march, that would be taking a position against constitutional rights, and yes, freedom” Here, you build the strawman, again.
No. That would be two opposing views competing freely in the market place of ideas. Since I have no power to prohibit their march, I cannot relieve them of their rights. Further, I said I would object to their marching, I did not say the can’t march. Taking an opposing positon does not constitute “the taking of rights”. Taking a position opposing some one else’s opinions while they exercise their freedom to speak their mind is not the same as opposing their right to speak. I know it’s easier for you to argue with me when you reframe my argument into the strawman you need to win. You do that all the time. Loser’s tactics.
So you object to their marching, then you try and turn that objection into a ban on their right to march. How is that not trying to prohibit their march? That’s what these people are doing. I think the problem is that in your hypothetical situation, you’re behaving better than many of the critics are. And let’s not lose sight of the fact that you would have more respect for white supremacists than theses people are having for Muslim Americans.
I’m not trying to build a straw man, I’m trying to figure out your argument. I’m not even sure the situations are analogous. Are you saying you would put your opposition to the KKK’s ideas out there, thus creating competition for their ideas? Or are you saying you would put your opposition to the parade out there (while still recognizing their right to march, which muddles the picture)? If it’s the first one, it wouldn’t make sense unless people were actually arguing against Islam (which I suppose some of them may have done). If it’s the second, it would mean that people aren’t trying to ban project, which the protesters wanted the board to do. There are some, like Dean and Reid, who have taken the position that I believe would be analogous to your example, but that seems quite different than what most of the opposition has done.
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By the way, do you oppose the project?
I stopped reading when you reframed my argument in you very first sentence into something that I did not say nor imply. You are hopeless. I will not even dignify the stripper thread with comment. We are done.
Agghhh.
So you’re not planning on telling me which argument you were making? As I said, you never made it clear what you were saying (though you felt comfortable condescending about it). I’m pretty sure you made two separate arguments then pretended you made one and acted like I was an idiot for not recognizing whichever argument you were making at the time. But let me know which one you were talking about, since you couldn’t handle more than one sentence.
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Ahhggg is about right.