The smoking ban insanity lives on, and I was wondering what everyone thought. In Lincoln we’ve had a ban for since before I could go to the bars, so it seems normal to me. I support the ban, but I know not everyone does. (Register your opinion using the poll on the right.)
Do people consider it a partisan thing? I know South Park creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker consider it a liberal thing to ban smoking in bars, but I’m not sure I agree. I was wondering what Dr and the readers think. Is banning smoking in bars a liberal thing, a smart thing, or both? Is the smoking ban a good thing, or is it an infringement on our freedoms?
I know in 1949 it would have been unheard of, especially when considering the clout the AMA holds.
All kidding aside, I am interested to hear your thoughts.
Enjoy the Music from the North Country by the Jayhawks.
Adam Feser
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no smoking in bars now, and soon, no drinking and no talking!
Are we back to Izzard quotes?
Let’s go down to the library. We’ll have a wild time. Don’t know where that book is mate, could be anywhere.
I know some people who I would like to implement the “no talking” bill against…..
There is no need of a smoking ban in The USA.
An owner can put a sign in the door stating.”This is a smoking venue.”
“This is a non-smoking venue”
This complicated situation is solved
This concept gives choices to the owners and the customers of these venues.
Incidently, smoke from tobacco in a decently ventilated venue is a statistically insignificant health risk.
http://smokersclubinc.com
http://pasan.thetruthisalie.com
I support business owners in having the choice to label their business “smoking” or “non-smoking”, but there are a lot of smokers who are very inconsiderate. I can’t stand going to the park and having people smoking around kids, that’s insane. It just seems like a complete public smoking ban may be the only way to get people to stop that sort of behavior. I’d personally be happy with the choice of the business owner as long as it’s clearly labeled, but like I said, parks and family attractions should be smoke free without question.
I don’t think it’s a liberal issue or a violation of rights to take it away. I think it’s a violation of my rights and my family’s rights when we go somewhere that’s supposed to be smoke free like Storybook Land and are subjected to it anyway. It should be like alcohal, there is a time and a place, it isn’t in parks or in most family restaurants.
I find it interesting that polls continue to be conducted on whether or not people support smoking bans in bars. The ONLY people who have a right to say whether there is smoking or not in MY bar, (MY as in my husband and I OWN it, as in WE are responsible for the bills) are the people who patronize our bar. We are NOT a public place. PUBLIC money does not pay our mortgage. PUBLIC money does not pay all the taxes and payroll taxes we pay on our employees. It doesn’t matter one iota what any “poll” says. Bars before bans – profitable. Bars after bans – close their doors.
An Ohio newspaper said it best “More Ohioans are drinking more booze than ever before, and they’re doing it more at home and less in bars and restaurants…Wholesale sales of liquor — purchased by bars, restaurants, fraternal organizations and other permit holders — fell for the second straight year in both dollars and gallonage, while retail sales of booze in groceries and other liquor stores recorded robust increases.” Two years straight…the same age as our smoking ban. http://www.daytondailynews.com/o/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/taste/entries/2009/01/15/ohioans_drinking_more_liquor_a.html
The Anti Tobacco cartel sold states, legislators and even voters a load of manure. They keep saying smoking bans don’t hurt bars and restaurants as if if they keep saying it, maybe it will come true. It’s a big lie.
Here’s the best part. Tobacco Control Fooled the States into Spending MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars on useless and, now proven more carcinogenic than cigarettes, nicotine REPLACEMENT products!!!!
Here’s the study on the carcinogens in Nicorette gum http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2272559?ordinalpos=14&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Here’s Dr. Michael Siegel’s blog explaining the study http://www.tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.com/
Here’s the Canadian article claiming Nicoderm is being investigated and that Big pHARMa has been overcharging (no…really?) http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/canada/2009/07/28/10294061-sun.html
Tobacco Control OWED big pHARMa for funding the bans. The payback? PUSH THEIR PRODUCTS THAT ARE TO REPLACE NICOTINE CIGARETTES.
So our gullible government who jumped on the anti bandwagon has been DUPED. They fell for the story about secondhand smoke, hook-line-and pocketbook. They’ve been bullied by the Tobacco Control health Nazis into passing out patches and gum, all paid for by the Master Settlement Agreement and funding from the Feds. Only now it’s proven that the patches are being investigated, they’re price gouging, the gum has more carcinogens than CIGARETTES and it’s more addictive than cigarettes ever were and the side effects are horrendous!!
And this was all done “to protect us”? Thanks but NO THANKS.
I am completely on the fence when it comes to this. Do I like coming home from bars smelling like an ash tray…no, but its something I have learned to accept. I think the worse smell is the combination of lane oil, grease, and smoke from a bowling alley that gets me
This issue is non-partisan as I have heard the South Dakota Attorney General doesnt support the ban and I have heard Chris Nelson, the South Dakota Secretary of State does.
To me its I guess it should be up to the business whether they allow smoking, however, I am more likely to frequent an establishment that doesn’t allow it. Chances are if they have a good ventilation system in place, you don’t even notice.
My prediction that if it goes to vote the verdict will be a 70% in favor of the ban to 30% against the ban.
I’m glad with all the passion. I would like to point out for Pam P. that the study shows there are trace amounts of carcinogens as a result of the nicotine being extracted from tobacco. The doctor explaining the study uses the study to show that electronic cigarettes are as useful a tool for quitting smoking as Nicorette is. He even says he wouldn’t want to scare people by announcing Nicorette has carcinogens because it could lead them back to smoking, which is infinitely worse. The doctor clearly supports the use of replacements as a tool to aid those struggling to quit smoking.
Nicorette is only to be used for twelve weeks. Any product that helps people quit smoking, whether it is Nicorette or e cigarettes, is a good thing. The study definitely does not say there are more carcinogens in the gum than in cigarettes. It does make comparisons to electronic cigarettes, which are cigarette replacements simulate smoking but only give nicotine. I hardly think bashing Nicorette has any place in a discussion about smoking in bars.
(Also, it would be a bigger surprise if there hadn’t been price gouging.)
But we are discussing smoking in bars. There are other people in the bars. While it is true that this is a choice for many of them, for workers, it often is not. Workers hoping to work in a smoke-free environment should not need to quit their job and hope to find another. I’ve heard of bartenders having insurance problems because they tested as smokers.
Where you may have an argument is if the harmful effects of second-hand smoke have been exaggerated. If this is true, the state would have less of a vested interest in this issue. That isn’t to say they still wouldn’t intrude, but there would be less reason to support it.
Then there is the reason so many people support the ban: their clothes and hair don’t smell like smoke.
Good discussion though.
And I just noticed Dr was responding as I was responding. So you are against the ban?
Also, I just noticed that Pam. P links to an anti-ban site in Ohio, which aims to show a link between smoking bans and drug company profits. That seems like a tough case to make at best. People that go to bars with smoking bans simply step outside and smoke. Most places in Lincoln have beer gardens that smokers frequent. I do not believe it was some conspiracy with drug companies to get people to quit. The government, rightly, is trying to get people to quit smoking. I just don’t think they are colluding with drug companies.
The smoke bans are bought and paid for by the industry that makes and sells the no smoke products, specifically the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation which passes out millionS to the American Cancer Society (the middle man that profits) to get the bans. The same also pays for the negative research geared ‘to fit their agenda’.
What a marketing scam!
Now here is the bottom line:
No smoke = No go = I’ll keep my own dough!
There is a direct correlation between the big pharmaceuticals, namely Johnson & Johnson and the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. They have spent insane amounts of money to denormalize smoking. The Profit from their own brand of nicotine, tobacco is the competition! Nicoderm’s side effects are skin lesions, hair loss, and cancer. Nicorette makes teeth fall out and high risk of oral cancer. With the nevertheless brilliant marketing scheme, few legislators really know the background. Big pharms pays for studies with the pre-conceived results. All others never see the light of day. Tell a lie enough times and people believe them as truth. I don’t like the smell of some perfumes that transfer to me, but I don’t think they should be banned. If you don’t want to smell like a campfire, you stay away from one. No one is forced to go to a bar where smoking is permitted. If air quality in a smoking permitted bar was truly bad, OSHA would have stepped in. Banning cigarettes in a bar only serves to keep the smokers from patronizing, a losing situation for the owner, and the state receives less in sales tax. And when is the last time anyone saw a bar full of kids! Anti-tobacco uses/blames kids for the zealotry and they attack parental autonomy where they have absolutely no business! The government needs to butt out of private property issues!
I wouldn’t support a smoking ban anywhere. A smoking ban is one example of the 2nd class treatment smokers receive. And as a black smoker myself, I know how it feels to be treated like someone who’s non-existent to the rest in society.
If owners wanna voluntarily make their businesses smoke-free, I can see that. But govts forcing all businesses to go smoke-free violates the owners’ freedom of choice.
The President lied about not raising taxes for poor people who make 250k or less. The fed tax on tobacco went up in April. And last time I checked, tobacco taxes is what smokers pay for, and most smokers are poor in general.
With all due respect to Barack, I think Michael Jordan, Bill Cosby, and even myself would make better candidates for a REAL Black President. I don’t believe in making smokers become more violent by raising the fed tobacco tax. If tobacco was more affordable, we wouldn’t be hearing of an increase of more cigs and cigars being stolen in stores.
The only thing that makes Barack “black” to me is he doesn’t read stuff before signing papers, and he’s definitely a liar. He’s just about as intelligent as a thug to me since he could care less about making smokers’ lives even worse….and didn’t he say he wouldn’t raise taxes for the poor?
At least he smokes both cigs and weed and he loves sports….the only things I have in common with him.
Wow. You hate Barack Obama because he signed a bill the extended insurance to 4 million children by increasing taxes on cigarettes by $1.01 a pack?
And are not reading stuff and being a liar your idea of stereotypes of black people? And in order to be more intelligent than a thug you should make cigarettes cheaper? I don’t quite understand the logic.
So what I’m hearing is that people should quit smoking, but just do it cold turkey. I’m okay with that.
I don’t see the connection between a smoking ban and nicotine products. You don’t need to quit smoking just because you can’t do it in a bar. Most people just step outside. Bars that want to maintain their business accommodate smokers with beer gardens that are heated in the winter and serve drinks in the summer. Most people in Lincoln seem perfectly happy with how things are.
It is odd to hear about smoking studies being bought by the other side. Perhaps it happens, but I’m just accustomed to hearing about tobacco companies using questionable studies.
Does anyone reading support the ban. Get in here and mix it up.
The SCHIP bill benefits those making up to $85,000 per year and I think only about 3% of kids. When will folks realize that anything the govt says is too good to be true, sugar-coated, hogwash? Elected officials are there to uphold the constitution, not tear it down!
Funny how a non-smoker will absolutely not see the connection. Nicotine is nicotine. No matter how it is packaged. One company wants their product to reign supreme over another’s product. It’s called competition! Doesn’t matter what the product is! You are being educated here, study and learn!
Where are you getting that information on SCHIP. I cannot find anything remotely close to that.
Nicotine in a cigarette is different than straight nicotine because cigarettes contain loads of other things. That isn’t just paid-for reports, it is how it is.
That still doesn’t address what I meant. I don’t see how a smoking ban in bars leads to people quitting smoking. Are the people here quitting smoking? Why would you expect it to be so? You can’t smoke in bars, so you get Nicorette? No, you go to the beer garden or go outside.
What is the educational lesson? Government sucks and products aimed at helping people quit smoking are horrible? Like spending money means they are evil. Every group who does anything lobbies. That is hardly new and educational information.
Products aimed at helping people quit also lead to propoganda that leads to legislation taking away business owners private property rights! The nicotine in a cigarette is at lower levels. Why would a smoker want to or have to have higher levels to quit! Smoking bans in bars don’t lead people to quit, just to stay home. Patios are not heated in the winter! Did you see the story about the young boy that OD’d on Nicorette given out by a school without any parental knowledge? How insane is that!
Adam,
I can tell you’re a nonsmoker and you actually make just about as enough sense as Barack promising to the poor people “I will not raise ANY taxes.”
I’ll just put it like this. If everyone stopped smoking (and dipping), then who’s gonna help fund SCHIP? Alcoholics? Fast food lovers? I know I heard rumors about a fast food tax increase during this year but not within Lincoln.
It’s hypocritical to encourage people to stop smoking but at the same time, politicians are depending on smokers and dippers to help pay for other kids’ health insurance.
It ain’t a lie smoking bans kill businesses. You can find a list of business closures due to smoking bans nationwide over the past 10 years. Don’t give me the excuse of “The economy is hurting businesses more.” NYC had a smoking ban for 6 years and counting. I read about some NYC businesses that closed down between 2003 and before the recession began.
In other words, why would taverns in NYC and CA close down in 2004 while the economy was good? It’s because those businesses LOST customers due to the smoking bans. And when they lose customers, they lose money.
You would think a smoke-free tavern is packed every night since there are more nonsmokers. But that definitely isn’t the case in Chicago. I even saw one Chicago tavern owner who ignores the smoking ban and lets his patrons smoke in there.
Smoking bans themselves are hurting the economy since several businesses are losing money and customers as long as the businesses are smoke-free. Some cities in IL depend non money from casios as part of the cities’ income. Well, unless those casinos can become smoker-friendly, those IL cities need to look elsewhere for income.
You right a smoking ban won’t make people quit smoking. It’ll make smokers stay home and the owners will lose all of that money they used to get from their smoking patrons.
The smoking ban I live under right now will NEVER make me quit. But I have decided to never visit certain places ever again if I can’t smoke in them…including sport stadiums.
I think the idea with funding benevolent programs using taxes on cigarettes is that the programs are good, and if people quit smoking, that’s good. Sort of a win-win (with the admitted exception being smokers).
I understand that smokers feel under attack. It just doesn’t seem that hard to step into the beer garden or outside. Perhaps Lincoln is different than some cities in this regard. But the last few times I have been to L.A., the bar seemed full of patrons that would simply step out back and socialize if they wanted a cigarette.
Also, I still don’t see how banning smoking in bars forces people to quit. And I just noticed you agree. The point of my statement is that if it doesn’t force people to quit, why does it benefit products designed to help people quit? That’s the connection many comments make and it doesn’t make sense to me.
How is that good for SCHIP funding if “people quit smoking?” Because unless beer drinkers and fast food addicts are gonna pay for SCHIP by paying for more taxes on their favorite products, the SCHIP funding would go bankroupt if everyone quit smoking.
RWJF owns tens of millions of shares of Johnson & Johnson, makers of cessation products. They give grants to the ACS, ALA, etc. to promote bans, anyone not doing this loses these grants. More companies are firing and not hiring workers that smoke, even outside of work. Many companies do not allow smoking anywhere on their property. Would that be an incentive to quit? Where do you turn? To cessation products.
This second hand smoke hysteria has gotten so bad in some places, that people have been beat to death just standing outside of a bar having a cigarette! That’s nuts!
How did mankind survive through the ages when all they had for cooking and warmth was burning a fire. Burning wood creates carcinogens at far higher levels than cigarette smoke! Google world’s oldest people smokers. ALL the world’s oldest are or were smokers!
[...] Smoking Ban Thoughts and Poll | Red, Blue & Purple [...]
In response to business closures do the smoking bans across the country. Can you ultimately prove the business closed b/c the ban went into affect? Or did the business close after the ban went into place and they were struggling before hand. When a business closes, its NEVER the fault of the current owner. Its the govt, the stupid people in the town.
Lets look at things from a different perspective, and this will get marbees shorts in a jumble. But what about creating a safe work environment for its employees. That isnt something an employer has a choice in.
“Don’t work there” is something I hear a lot. Well sometimes that isn’t an option especially this day in age.
I know someone that has worked in the resturant business for the last 35 years that allowed smoking and developed throat cancer. Never smoked or chewed a day in his life. The only smoking he did was the 2nd hand smoke that he endured everyday of his life. The doctor told him it was related to second hand smoke. He survived his battle with cancer, but this can show that 2nd hand smoke isnt just nonsense has said in this blog.
Let me address two points, both about false beliefs.
1) Someone wrote, “O’ve heard of bartenders having insurance problems because they tested as smokers.” “Heard of” is the operative term here: it’s an urban legend promoted by Antismokers. Why do I say that? Simple: go read the studies on cotinine blood measurements. Bartenders would test out at something like .01ng/g to .15 ng/g. Even very light smokers of just 1 – 5 cigarettes per day would have at least ten times that amount in their bloodstream. There is no way “insurance problems” would crop up because of people being “tested as smokers” in any normal bar/restaurant situations.
2) DR’s posting about someone who worked in a bar getting throat cancer. Yeah, that might be true. But it’s also true that nuns living in cloistered convents sometimes get throat cancer. If Sister Mary Holy Picture had documented throat cancer after praying in a convent for 40 years would be conclude that “Praying Causes Throat Cancer” ? You know, all that repetitive “Hail Mary, mother of God….” stuff over and over and over again? Can’t be good for ya, eh?
If you look at almost anything out there that tries to support “the deadly threat of secondhand smoke” and track it back to its source you’ll find the same sort of thing: distortions, misunderstandings, mistakes, and outright lies candycoated with bits of truth. Smoking bans are bad laws built on lies: there’s no sound reason for denying businesses the right to choose to be smoking or nonsmoking except for social engineering.
Michael J. McFadden
Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”
Another quickie to DR’s, “Can you ultimately prove the business closed b/c the ban went into affect? ”
DR, in Britain pubs were closing at the rate of 3/week during the two years before their ban. The ban came in and the closure rate shot to 36, then 42, and now 52/week. That’s well over a THOUSAND PERCENT INCREASE in closures and getting rapidly worse as the pubs’ owners burn through their savings and their businesses collapse.
Take a look at this very quick and easy, but also completely accurate graph of what happened to Minnesota’s Charitable Gambling revenues after their bans:
http://arclightzero.web.officelive.com/Documents/MNGraph.pdf
If 2008 is graphed in it continues the disaster of the end of 2007. When the “World Economic Meltdown” hits at the end of 2008 it shows up as little more than an inconvenient blip at the end of the years of smoking ban disaster.
Hard to deny official government numbers like that, eh?
Michael J. McFadden
Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”
We won’t need to worry about schip drying up because thank god JAY we have ignorent people like you all over who will just keep smoking anyways, right up until there families put them in the ground. I fully support the ban i have lived in two states now that already have it and it’s great it’s nice to be able to enjoy yourself while your out wihtout having to fight for fresh air all night (like a night at the ZOO for instance)
And if your to damn lazy to get you A*$ off the barstool and walk 20 feet to the nice patio that the bar owner built (just to please you) then you have more issues than can be explained by a smoking ban.
Adam, it’s nice to be on the same side of an issue for once. Jay, you’re saying that black people, smokers, drinkers, and the poor are all in the same bunch? I think you’re wrong on the race card, there are more and more very successful African Americans in the spotlight in every area from politics to sports to business to entertainment to military. These days the race issue is just another card played, it seems like almost everyone who doesn’t want to take responsibility for their own circumstances has a card or two. As far as a relationship between drinking and smoking being connected to being poor, maybe if you really believe that, you ought to quit drinking and smoking. It stands to reason that if you’re broke, giving up two expensive and absolutely unnecessary activities would work in your favor. Just a thought.
Also Jay, I’m all for complaints about Obama, I can’t stand him and I’m thrilled to see his approval rating fall, but come on, your biggest beef with him is a smoking tax? That’s pathetic, it’s also pathetic to try to justify stealing tobacco because the mean old government taxes it too high. I’m against a lot of excessive taxes, but I don’t advocate stealing as a response.
A question for you Adam, in your opinion, since there aren’t any real numbers on this topic: If the uninsured people in America gave up drinking, smoking, and gambling, would a good percentage of them probably be able to afford a basic health policy? Take into account the price of cigarettes, chewing tobacco, and the amount of money dropped in bars every day. I’m not saying people should be forced to quit those things, but I do believe that the question is worth some thought. I see people dropping tons of money in every store I go into on cartons of smokes, cases of beer, and stacks of lottery cards and tickets. Those things may produce large numbers of tax dollars, but given the huge tax payer expense in health care, perhaps we’d be better off without the tax dollars from those sources and with people who make better choices with their money. I know, I’m back to personal accountability vs. government dependency and I know which side of the isle you’re on, but I’m wondering what you think.
It is obviously beneficial to quit smoking and drinking, both financially and for health reasons.
Michael: I know the bartender.
If there’s even a chance that second-hand smoke can cause serious harm to others, is it too much to ask to step outside?
Why do bars go out of business? Because people must step outside to smoke? Are any of the smoking ban opponents even from South Dakota? If not that’s fine, I’m just wondering if this was the result of a google search.
JP – You get YOUR dumb ass to a non smoking establishment! Bar owners have the right to refuse service to anyone, as THEY pay the property taxes. I would not want you and your arrogant crap around me, I don’t care for liars OR control freaks!
adamfesar asks, “If there’s even a chance that second-hand smoke can cause serious harm to others, is it too much to ask to step outside?”
Good point in some ways Adam. I guess since we know that ethyl alcohol is a Class A Carcinogen AND a highly volatile liquid that it’s not too much to ask the alkies to pop outside for a few quick gulps after their meals as well. Would you agree?
You can read more on that in the RRs of the British Medical Journal under “Secondary Smoke, Alcohol, and Deaths” at:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/330/7495/812#103642
Michael J. McFadden
Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”
That analogy is by no means apt. Ethyl alcohol doesn’t magically end up in other people’s mouths.
There has been talk about biases in the studies. The link you posted contains what appear to be responses to a paper published on how passive smoking caused by second-hand smoke actually kills people. So the study that was worthy of being published estimated deaths caused by second-hand smoke. Instead of posting the article, you posted people’s opinions on it. The first response supports regulating tobacco. The second one was written by a “Long-term consultant of the tobacco industry.” Some of responses point out that second-hand smoke is likely deadly, but the analysis was flawed. This is hardly unbiased and trustworthy information, and it hardly helps the case that second-hand smoke is not harmful.
Haha sheila, funny you say that, I DO only go to non smoking establishments, because in MN they are ALL non-smoking haha, and i can tell you honestly i have NEVER, EVER heard anyone complain about having to step outside on the patio to smoke, in fact i believe most people in general are considerate people and have no problem with this small task. To go further i have buddys visit me all the time from the great state of SD who know you have to outside to smoke, and guess what? THEY dont care i know that’s a shocker to you, and most of them say they can even see why people trying to enjoy themself for a night out dont want to breath in smoke all night.
I am assuming that the reason my comment from three days ago is still “awaiting moderation” is because of the mistake I made in one of the links. Sorry! Typo corrected below:
====
Adam, if you read the specific response pointed to you’ll note that your claim that “That analogy is by no means apt. Ethyl alcohol doesn’t magically end up in other people’s mouths.” is incorrect. It most certainly does end up in their mouths and up their noses, and it does so in far greater quantities than the recognized human carcinogenic components of secondary smoke would in normal bar/restaurant situation.
I was not referencing or saying anything at all one way or another about the primary study itself or the other Rapid Responders other than what I stated in my own Response itself.
If you’d like a bit more information on the quality of the research in the area of secondary smoke and smoking bans and such things here are some suggestions:
http://www.Antibrains.com – my own site with some book excerpts and links to articles.
http://www.velvetgloveironfist.com/index.php?page_id=1 which is the home site for Christopher Snowdon’s excellent “Velvet Glove, Iron Fist….” and which includes various excerpts and articles.
And for a good example of how biased smoking ban studies can be and why they are biased, I’d recommend reading Jacob Grier’s May 27th column and aftercomments at:
http://www.jacobgrier.com/blog/archives/2210.html
to see how researchers write million dollar grant proposals that promise the “right” kind of results before they even do the research!
Michael J. McFadden
Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”
“‘Logic dictates that if cigarette smoke is harmful when inhaled into the lungs of smokers then the same smoke when inhaled into the lungs of non- smokers will also be harmful. To argue otherwise would be foolhardy.’ People like myself argue that the dilution of that smoke, particularly in modern venues with far better ventilation than generally reflected in epidemiological studies based on exposures stretching back 30 or 40 years, make a huge difference.”
It seems difficult to reconcile your above claim with the claim that alcohol inhalation in bars is dangerous. The statements contradict one another.
The more I look at the various studies the more it seems that it is likely second-hand or secondary smoke can be dangerous, though it is not definitely so. Reports funded by the tobacco company are likely to find no connection to cancer while other reports often find a connection.
Whether or not you see the threat, he here is the thing: you can step outside. My favorite bar in Lincoln has a huge beer garden that people love to hang out in. That way the harmful alcohol and tobacco fumes are acceptable. In the summer you can play games and in the winter it is covered and heated. Most Lincoln bars have installed a similar location to accommodate people such as yourself.
I don’t even care if second-hand smoke is absolutely not carcinogenic (which doesn’t seem likely). I would still support the ban because smoke inside is annoying. It makes many eyes itch and water, smells horrible, and makes you smell horrible.
I just don’t get how you spend all your time writing about this topic. Your preface says you have no affiliation to the tobacco industry, so why are you so interested? Is the money that good or is it just that hard to step outside?
isn’t a bar supposed to be somewhere you can smoke? c’mon its a place for depressed people to relax, or others to have fun. i dont like cigarettes, personally, they disgust me. but still, the government is really overstepping their bounds here. people who dont want to inhale the smoke sont have to be there. i even know of a place where people go to hang out. its not a bar, but still. anyone who wants to smoke goes outside and smokes in public on the side walk for all passer-byers to inhale. srsly guys, lets repeal this.
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Unfortunately the page holding that referenced graph for Minnesota has been erased. It is reproduced with an update though on page 18 of the freely readable, downloadable, and printable “New Stiletto: Lies Behind The Smoking Bans” at:
http://encyclopedia.smokersclub.com/257.html
Apologies for the inconvenience, but the Stiletto has other good information as well. – - – Michael J. McFadden, Author of “Dissecting Antismokers’ Brains”
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Od dawna szuka?em artyku?u na temat Red, Blue & Purple » Blog Archive » Smoking Ban Thoughts and Poll . Dzi?ki
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