“I’m fed up with journalists. But it’s not your fault,” says José ‘Pepe’ Mujica, as he opens the door to his modest home, his “sanctuary” at the end of a dirt track in the countryside on the outskirts of Montevideo.
He is perhaps the most famous Uruguayan in the world, but that doesn’t faze him. “I’m not a phenomenon; I’m just an ordinary guy with some eccentricities … a bit of a weirdo,” says the 89-year-old former president.
Mujica has fought many battles. Now he is celebrating a new triumph: the victory of his protégé, Yamandú Orsi, in this month’s presidential run-off, which will see the left return to power in this small country of 3.4 million inhabitants.
In the midst of recovering from oesophageal cancer, which took him to the brink of death, this victory has “the pleasant taste of a farewell prize,” confesses the former guerrilla fighter.
Mujica, who governed Uruguay between 2010 and 2015, voiced a message of anti-consumption and sobriety that left an indelible mark internationally.
Highly critical of authoritarian left-wing leaders in Latin America who seek to perpetuate themselves in power, Mujica firmly states that he will not hold “any position” in the next Frente Amplio (FA) administration led by Orsi.
Mujica is from another age. He speaks slowly, seated in a dimly lit room where time seems to have stood still. His worn slippers and old woollen socks stand out.
Behind him, on the bookshelf, there are piles of books, travel souvenirs, a statue of Pope Francis, and a photo of Fidel Castro.
In the adjoining kitchen sits his wife and partner in life, former vice-president Lucía Topolansky.
What did you feel with the victory of the Frente Amplio?
You’re talking to a veteran who’s almost 90, who has lived through many shocks, so the victory brought me a sense of gratitude, joy, and there’s something of a prize for me, a bit at the end of my journey … It has a pleasant taste, a little like a farewell prize … I won’t be taking any position [in the government].
What do you attribute your leadership to?
“’In the beginning was the Word,” says The Bible. The word is a powerful weapon if used well, and if, apart from rationality, it reaches the emotional areas of human beings. And nature perhaps gave me part of that gift … the gift of speech. And maybe I was able to refine it.
Uruguay is an island in a world of polarisation. Are you afraid that this may happen here at some point?
Generally, things don’t happen for no reason. What’s happening with [President Javier] Milei in Argentina is madness. It’s a lesson in what hyperinflation can do to a people. A new historical lesson. Because the Weimar Republic collapsed, and people voted for [Adolf] Hitler due to a process of hyperinflation. And Germany was the most cultured, the most cultivated country, and the German people, desperate, made a terrible mistake. The Argentine people have also made a terrible mistake …. People also make mistakes. If it happened to them, it could happen to us too.
Isn’t it time to redefine the left in Latin America, where there are also presidents like Nicolás Maduro in Venezuela and Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua?
They are not left-wing, they are authoritarian. I place Cuba a bit outside of this because it’s another matter, because 70 years ago they said, ‘We embrace the dictatorship of the proletariat, a single party,’ and well, it’s a theory you can disagree with a lot.
You’ve been a guerrilla, senator, minister, president. What’s left for you?
There are always things left undone. This is a small country, but endowed with many resources for food production. In fact, we produce enough food for 30 million people. No-one should be going hungry. And I was president. And I didn’t do enough.
What do you regret?
That there are still people who struggle to eat.
And on a personal level?
Personally, I have to be grateful. Life has given me so much. You’ll see how simply my wife and I live. But that’s not poverty. We are philosophically stoic. We need very little … We’re living in an age that has created a consumerist culture in which people subjectively tend to confuse being with having.
You said you feel you couldn’t change anything, despite having spent 40, 50 years fighting for causes. Do you feel a bit like the old politicians have failed the young?
I don’t know if we failed the young; we failed the hope. Because in our youth we made mistakes. But we had the ability to dream. We believed we would build a better world … And what hope do young people have today for a better world? We had utopias, they don’t. It’s not the fault of the young. It’s the fault of a blind time, without answers, like ours.
You will be remembered, among other things, for legalising marijuana. What’s your view on that?
The drug policy pursued by the world has been failing for almost 70, 80 years. People consume more and more drugs. And no energy is spent educating people to [exercise] self-control, which is the only thing that can be done. And they have built an empire of evil that has the power to corrupt everything. Because there are two problems: addiction and drug-trafficking. Drug-trafficking is poison for society.
Mercosur-EU deal ‘won’t happen’
Former Uruguayan President José ‘Pepe’ Mujica predicts the trade agreement the European Union (EU) and Mercosur have been trying to finalise after 25 years of negotiations, which is strongly opposed by France, will fail.
“It won’t happen … Because the French farmers don’t want it. And French farmers dominate French culture,” Mujica said in an interview.
The former president (2010–2015) admitted that if he were French, he would side with the farmers. “But since I’m not French, it doesn’t suit me,” he said.
The terms of the agreement between the 27 EU countries and Mercosur – Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay, and Uruguay – were agreed in 2019, but several countries, including France, Italy and Poland, have rejected it under pressure from their agricultural sectors.
The deal would allow the four South American countries to increase their quotas and see more beef, poultry, pork, honey, sugar and other products entering the EU.
EU agricultural unions argue that the agreement would result in unfair competition, as food production in Mercosur countries is not subject to the same environmental, social, or sanitary standards in case of faulty controls.
“They use that as an excuse,” Mujica claimed. “They’re defending their interests. They can’t compete with Mercosur.”
Discussions about the progress of the negotiations will be on the table next week, during the 65th Mercosur Leaders Summit on December 5 and 6 in Montevideo.
Mujica hopes for ‘some evolution’ for Venezuela
Former Uruguayan President José ‘Pepe’ Mujica considers Nicolás Maduro’s Venezuela to be an “authoritarian regime” and believes that change will come “from within … at some point,” he stated in the interview.
“I have deep disagreement with authoritarian regimes. What I don’t support is external intervention. Venezuela’s problems must be solved by Venezuelans. And, in any case, we should help them. But not interfere,” said the former 2010–2015 president.
“There will be some evolution from within Venezuela at some point,” he asserted.
Mujica denied that Maduro’s government, in power since 2013, is left-wing or comparable to that of his predecessor, late ex-president Hugo Chávez (1999–2013).
“Some of the Chavistas are outside of that, and many are persecuted around the world,” he emphasised.
Mujica, a former guerrilla fighter who embraced democracy after spending 14 years in prison, mostly during the 1973–1985 dictatorship, also lamented the “authoritarianism” in Nicaragua under Daniel Ortega and his wife Rosario Murillo, who fought against Anastasio Somoza’s dictatorship (1937–1979), ruled in the 1980s with the Frente Sandinista de Liberación Nacional (FSLN), and returned to power in 2007.
“Nicaragua is a mess,” he said. “It’s incredible where the Sandinista revolution has ended up, in this old thing full of stones and stuff. It’s monstrous. … It was a dream revolution against Somoza.”
“I put the Cubans aside. Not because they’re right, but because 70 years ago they defined the dictatorship of the proletariat and a single party. And we have relations with China and Vietnam, and we don’t have a problem with it.
“We can accept that situation. I don’t agree with that, because it doesn’t work,’ Mujica said.
“What pisses me off the most is when they play at democracy and then cheat. That is unbearable.
“Authoritarianism in Latin America is a step backwards. We experienced it historically when the United States meddled everywhere,” he said.
Mujica also questioned former Bolivian President Evo Morales (2006-2019), who is fighting for control of the ruling left-wing party with President Luis Arce, whom he accuses of wanting to ban him from running for election again via lawfare.
“In life there is a time to arrive and a time to leave … What Evo is doing is inconceivable,”he said.
Mujica also criticised Argentina’s two-term former president Cristina Fernández de Kirchner (2007-2015), who returned as vice-president between 2019 and 2023.
“There is the old Kirchner in Argentina, at the head of Peronism. Instead of being an old advisor and leaving new generations, no, she’s screwing around there. How hard it is for them to leave it alone! What the hell!” exclaimed Mujica.
The former Uruguayan president is also concerned that his “old friend” Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, who is governing Brazil for a third term, has no successor in sight.
“Lula is close to 80 years old. And he has no replacement. That is Brazil’s misfortune,” Mujica said.
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by Alina Dieste, María Lorente & Mariano Andrade, AFP
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Publish date : 2024-12-05 07:18:00
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