Venezuela’s opposition leader is in hiding, but still speaking out

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MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:

When Maria Corina Machado came to the phone today, she was speaking from an undisclosed location in Venezuela.

Hi Ms. Machado. This is Mary Louise Kelly in Washington. Can you hear me?

MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Yes, I can hear you, Mary Louise.

KELLY: Hi. I'm glad to speak with you.

MACHADO: Glad to speak with you as well.

KELLY: Machado leads the political opposition in Venezuela. She has been in hiding since national elections there in July, elections the opposition says it can prove it won. President Nicolas Maduro has ignored that, claiming victory himself without evidence and cracking down on anyone who disputes that. His government has threatened to arrest Machado, hence her decision to go into hiding. And she is alone - no staff, no aides, no friends.

MACHADO: That's the conditions we believe are proper for the security of others as well as for my own security.

KELLY: Are you able to get fresh air, to go outside, to take a walk?

MACHADO: Not really, but I can't complain because I have many of my colleagues that are right now in prison or under asylum or had to leave their country.

KELLY: So you're speaking to us from hiding. Why stay in Venezuela under these conditions?

MACHADO: Because I trust the Venezuelan people, and we have - I have no doubt that the result of our fight will be the liberation of Venezuela. Maduro is totally isolated, weaker than ever. And our people want and needs to know that I'm here with them.

KELLY: Yeah. I mean, your colleague in the opposition, Edmundo Gonzalez, has left for Spain because there's a warrant for his arrest. If you were outside Venezuela, you could speak freely. You could sit down with me in person. Would your voice not be louder?

MACHADO: I don't think so. I think at this point, Edmundo is doing a great job. He is the president-elect, and he's doing that job of engaging directly with the international sector. I believe Venezuelans need to know that I'm here with them and that we'll move ahead in the democratic transition to Venezuela - that this has no way back.

KELLY: Let me turn to a development this month, which is that the U.S. Secretary of State Anthony Blinken referred to your co-opposition leader, Edmundo Gonzalez, with those words, referring to him as Venezuela's president-elect - first time he has done that. Do those words make any difference?

MACHADO: Oh, yes, they do, certainly. I think they send a very strong message to the rest of the world and to the regime as well because Maduro tells those that still support him that the world will, you know, turn the page with Venezuela and that he will be able to stay by violence. And this sends a message that this is not going to happen.

KELLY: When you talk about President Maduro - Nicolas Maduro - being in decline, I understand that your movement has produced voting tallies to prove that he lost the election, and yet, you're in hiding. He's still in power. He's figured out how to get oil around sanctions. Is he in decline? Is he actually in a weaker position?

MACHADO: I have no doubt. I believe that every day that goes by, Maduro loses supporters in Venezuela and internationally. Maduro has been accused and denounced of committing crimes against humanity by the fact-finding mission of the United Nations. And every day that goes by, I believe the pressure from abroad and within will be growing.

KELLY: Let's look ahead to January and to presidential politics here in the U.S. President Trump will return to office. I gather you know his pick for secretary of state, Senator Marco Rubio. Have you talked to him since the U.S. elections?

MACHADO: No, no. I spoke with him before and with his staff. And he's a good friend of Latin America. And I think he's a freedom-loving person that will stand beside the Venezuelan people.

KELLY: I'm remembering that last time Donald Trump was in the White House, his administration put pressure on Venezuela - used economic sanctions to do that. Those sanctions wreaked such havoc on your country's economy that millions of Venezuelans left, migrated out. What are you hoping for this time from a second Trump administration?

MACHADO: Well, the fact is that the destruction of Venezuelan economy happened even before the sanctions were put in place. People leave the country, and we have a growing migration. That's because of the economic situation. Believe me, it's because of the lack of future. And everybody here knows that that future is directly linked to democracy and regime change. So if we want to stop migration, if we want to stop those flows from reaching to the United States, we have to go to the cause of the problem. And the cause of the problem right now is Maduro and his, you know, brutal regime.

KELLY: What's next for you?

MACHADO: I'll keep doing what I'm doing right now - reaching out to every single person around the world, to letting them know how we're moving ahead, to give hope and also working and preparing for a peaceful transition.

KELLY: And you're prepared to fight this fight as long as it takes, even from hiding?

MACHADO: Until the end, and we will win. We will prevail. I have no doubt.

KELLY: That is Venezuelan opposition leader, Maria Corina Machado, speaking with us from an undisclosed location in Venezuela. Thank you.

MACHADO: Thank you.

(SOUNDBITE OF JAKE XERXES FUSSELL SONG, "WASHINGTON") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

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